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WillowOne's Positions

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Notes

  • Archbishop John Onaiyekan
  • Woefully out of his depth
  • "... you [the opposition] simply must start by making a great number of apologies." - off
  • Apologies (Catholic Church Apologies) that have had to be made by the church
  • Takes apart the anticipated appeal to moral relativism
  • Future apologies that remain due
  • Condoms!
  • In the end the Audience starts to loudly applaud.
  • Ann Widdecombe
  • Respect the courage to stand after Hitchens.
  • Cleverly disarms some of the rhetoric and charismatic spell Hitchens had cast.
  • Returns to the tired talking point that some Catholic do good things - A weak argument but there is little else available.
  • The church is no worse than anyone else at the time, how could they have known better - Well this point is going to come back to bite you.
  • Great charitable donations. - Genetic Fallacy.
  • Condoms and child abuse.
  • When I first watched this debate I remember feeling worried for Stephen Fry stepping up in this space... I was very wrong to be concerned.
  • Disarming and then Devastating ("This motion matters to me")
  • Not reading, speaking from the heart passionately and honestly... and knowledgeably
  • Only reading when referencing quotes.
  • Obsessed with sex.
  • Genuinely get goosebumps listening to Stephen speak.
  • Just perfect.
  • Initial vote
  • Proposition: The Catholic Church is a Force for Good in the World
  • For: 678
  • Against: 1102
  • Undecided: 346
  • Questions
  • Widdecombe - A continued to be a solo defence as Onaiyekan fails to offer much of value on any matter.
  • Stephen Fry continues to dominate.
  • The best question: Woman says she was baptised but is now an atheist, is she still counted in the Catholic claimed numbers of followers?
  • Closing statements.
  • Fry
  • Burglar in court analogy was lovely
  • Just great
  • Widdecombe - Children are born because people in poor countries need people to look after them.
  • Widdecombe - denies condoms reduces AIDS - Really?
  • Hitchens - "I am obsessed with sex" - lol
  • Hitchens plays his empowerment of women lines, which usually is an effective line for him generally gets crowd consensus
  • Hitchens actually addresses the points raised attacking the ten commandments.
  • Hitchens - "My children would be proud to have stephen as a baby sitter, and if any baby sitter turned up at my door wearing holy orders I would call first a cab and then the police" lol
  • Hitchens - Slavery, primates, absolution
  • Good stuff as always.
  • Onaiyekan - "Let us come back to the topic" - This is a rhetorical tick that implied that everything that was previously spoke about was off-topic and this is the only important point you need to consider.
  • "There is no argument against the position" ... ooof, really
  • blah-blah-blah basically an argument for na-ah
  • Final vote
  • Proposition: The Catholic Church is a Force for Good in the World
  • For: 268 -406
  • Against: 1876 +774
  • Undecided: 34 -312
  • Just destroyed the Proposition